Minutes of the 3rd TF-LSD Meeting

11.30 - 17.15, Sunday 13 May 2001, Antalya

Agenda

1. Opening, introduction and agenda bashing
2. Minutes of Last Meeting (Amsterdam, February 2,2001)
3. Status report on actions from last meeting
4. Nordunet2 Directory Project NEEDS
5. DANTE NameFlow Update
6. Round of NREN news update
7. TF-LSD deliverables:

7.1. Resume on the interoperability testing
7.2. The first Draft of the Privacy document
8. Directory related issues in PKI development
9. Directory related work in the Global Grid Forum - (PG)
10. Pilot Project proposals discussion
10.1. CIP-based Referral Server Ė Catalogix and REDIRIS
10.2. Definition of a European Education Person (DEEP) - DAASI International Ltd
10.3. Adding Certificate Retrieval to OpenLDAP - University of Salford
11. Other work items
12. Date of next meetings, AOB and Close
13. Summary of actions
Appendix. List of the 3rd TF-LSD attendees on 13.May 2001
1. Opening, introduction and agenda bashing

Meeting was attended by 24 people representing 17 organisations/networks from 12 countries. A list of the attendees can be found in the appendix to these minutes.

2. Minutes of Last Meeting (Amsterdam, February 2,2001)

The minutes of the previous meeting held on 2 February 2001 were approved without one change proposed by Ton Verschuren. He pointed that one Action on SURFnet to translate into English SURFnet document on Privacy aspects in Directory Services  was missing.

3. Status report on actions from last meeting
 
Action No Action content Status
Action 2-1 Teams to take up work on the deliverables  On-going
Action 2-2 Henny to contact Ericsson to find out about possible time of testing Ericsson Directory server.  Done.
Action 2-3 Peter to present the current status of the deliverables at TNC 2001  Done.

Presentation included into TNC2001 Programme

Action 2-4 Peter to present results of Deliverable I. "Investigating the usability of services based on the new evolving directory related standards" at TNC2002.  Ongoing
Action 2-5 Diego to publish definition of iris-x skeleton in English.  Ongoing
Action 2-6 Diego to discuss with Roland possible extension of LIMS functionality.  Done. 

Pilot project proposal submitted to TERENA

Action 2-7 Leif and others to inform TF-LSD members about available LDAP/Directory promotional documents and presentations.  On-going
Action 2-8 Peter to send comments on Internet2 EduPerson definition to I2 EduPerson mailing list.  David sent comments
Action 2-9 TF-LSD to consider further possible activities related to development/harmonization of the Internet2 EduPerson.  Done.

DEEP pilot project proposal submitted to TERENA. Main issues discussed with Internet2 people.

Action 2-10 Luuk/SURFnet to inform TF-LSD about DC/X.521 Gateway development and experience.  Ongoing.
Action 2-11 Discuss in TF-LSD mailing list about possible contribution to OpenLDAP development for benefits of European NRENs.  Done.

Discussed in mailing list. Pilot project proposal on PKI extension to OpenLDAP submitted to TERENA. 


 

4. Nordunet2 Directory Project NEEDS

Stig Venas made short presentation about NEEDS Project (Nordic Enhanced Educational Directory Service) recently approved for funding by NORDUNET. Project home page - http://www.katalog.uninett.no/needs/.

Projectís main objectives:

The project will provide searching for persons and finding data associated with the persons, including cryptographic certificates. It is limited to white pages type information on people in the Nordic academic communities. Participants are UNINETT, FUNET, SUNET and Catalogix.

Main tasks include:

Project also supposes coordination with national projects in the Nordic countries and other projects and activities like TF-LSD and Internet2.

Most of project activities are going on in parallel; there is a special group working on TIO generation and distribution.

People pointed out the importance to pay attention to internationalization issues. This is especially important when you use different OS. In this respect Windows 2000 and Windows XP has benefits comparing to Linux. It was advised that implementation should have internal mapping to Unicode, otherwise users may have problems.

Another recommendation was to look at NEEDS deliverable and timetable and align it with TF-LSD deliverables and establish coordination with DAASI project.

Action 3-1. Stig to publish Deliverables and dates to the tf-lsd mailing list.
 

5. DANTE NameFlow Update

Konstantin Chuguev informed about recent development in DANTE NameFlow service.

NameFlow webpage http://www.dante.net/nameflow/ has been updated and includes now links to Directory Servers and Gateways (X.500 Server, LDAP Server, WWW to X.500 Gateway, WWW to LDAP Gateway, LDIF Gateway), information and documentation, National Directory Services registration.

Starting from November, NameFlow runs standalone LDAPv3 server based on OpenLDAP-2.0 at ldap://ldap.nameflow.net:389. The server contains mostly referrals to national LDAP services and is intended to be as one of the main NameFLOW services for the future (although they are going to keep X.500 server for another year or more). New server uses new developed patches for OpenLDAP allowing one-level and subtree search with base="". This means that anyone can get information about national LDAP servers via LDAPv3, rather than by reading LDIF file http://www.gateway.nameflow.net/ldif/root.ldif  (introduced by DIRECT project). libNameFLOW library is described at http://www.dante.net/nameflow/software/libnameflow.html.

Next development will include TIO interchange. The decision to be made is how to distribute TIO. GIDS is seen as considerable option and remaining problem is to decide what protocol should be used to communicate with GIDS Ė http, ftp or e-mail.

Short discussion was about benefits of using php or python for building web interface for LDAP.

Henny Bekker reminded that DANTE promised to distribute LDIF. Although a special page is available at NameFlow server at http://www.dante.net/nameflow/ldif.html (that produces DIRECT-compatible LDIF file from the new LDAPv3 standalone NameFLOW server), it was suggested that such link should be provided from the NameFlow frontpage. Ton also informed that Michael Stroeder and Janus Liebregts are going to use one of SURFnet servers to distribute pointers to LDIF.

Action 3-2. Konstantin to place link to LDIF distribution page from NameFlow frontpage.
 

6. Round of NREN news update

Round of new updates gave possibility for all present to inform about recent developments at their Networks.

Some NRENs and Universities reported that they are at the beginning of LDAP and related PKI implementations. CEZNet, CARNet, PON (Polish Optical Network), University of Geneva are considering to move from current Directory services mostly based on X.500 or whois to LDAP base. There is no significant activity at NREN level in UK, it is expected that PKI deployment will push National Directory services.

SURFnet is using LDAP for both accessing personal information about people and for building directory-based applications like PKI and AAA. Now they are experimenting with all kind of authentication devices, including SIM-card, mobile telephone, etc. To assist LDAP implementation by Universities, SURFnet prepared a PKI/LDAP integration Cookbook.

Roland Hedberg from Catalogix informed about current LDAP related activities at IETF, he mentioned that long-existing LDEXT WG on LDAP extension will be closed soon to free space for another WG focused on more up-to-date problems like LDAP Schema. He also mentioned that former project at SWITCH (run by Thomas Lenggenhager) on providing all students with electronic ID that used LDAP for storing Certificates with all necessary information, can be treated as a proof of concept for building such applications on LDAP.

Michael Gettes from Georgetown University project informed about Directory related activities in Internet2 Programme, all of which run under supervision and umbrella of MACE (Middleware Architecture Committee for Education). MACE-Dir includes projects: eduPerson directory schema (Keith Hazelton), the Directory of Directories for Higher Education (DoDHE), LDAP Recipe (Michael Gettes), VidMid (Ken Klingenstein), MACE-Shibboleth (Steven Carmody). MACE-Dir is chaired by Keith Hazelton. More information can found at http://middleware.internet2.edu/MACE/.

DoDHE is investigating technology to support inter-institutional directory searching. This project is an application of the LDAP-Recipe and eduPerson objectclasses. Itís pilot implementation should serve around 6 millions entries of total 22 millions of students population in US. The key technical task is to allow unified search in University directories and others connected to them. It also should allow searching for communities of interests to find concrete people if they are present in DoD.

David Chadwick informed about a project going on in his University on storing Certificates in LDAP. Project includes creating an operational model of running LDAP based service for big population. Current problems are seen in the scalability and performance when millions of entries are stored.

Peter Gietz gave information about Directory related work at DFN. The newly founded company DAASI took over all Directory related activities of DFN, including the directory competence centre DDS and a research project on Authentication and PKI. In a diploma thesis coached by DAASI different directory software was tested. Performancewise Active Directory, Netscape Directory and OpenLDAP rated best. Tests included messaging, address lookup and authentication with a population of 20 thousand entries. Michael made remark that he knows about another test and will be interested to know more about the test. It was suggested that Peter will publish results in TF-LSD list after the termination od the thesis.

Action 3-3. Peter to publish results of test of different LDAP server software.
 

7. TF-LSD deliverables:

7.1. Resume on the interoperability testing

Roland informed meeting about results of Index servers testing. 2 TIOs were used in tests: one produced by GIDS and another one from DAASI. Problems discovered:

1) what kind of tokenization should be used? Initial suggestion was to use DNS type of tokenization, however later was decided to use semicolon ";" what caused interoperability problems. When the problem had been discovered during test, it was agreed to stay with DNS type tokenization.

2) another issue came up about what attributes should be included into TIO and requests? It was discovered that filters may loose context attribute like "country" when looking for/requesting sub-ordinate servers.

It was decided to send last call to the list about tokenization and TIO attributes. Some additional information about TIO will be also beneficial, like used Schema.

After resolving all problems Peter and Roland will write report and publish it via TF-LSD list and web site.

Action 3-4. Send last call to TF-LSD mailing list about tokenization and TIO attributes.

Action 3-5. Peter and Roland prepare report on testing LDAP Index Servers and publish via TF-LSD mailing list.
 
 

7.2. The first Draft of the Privacy document

Peter Gietz reported about first results of the study about Privacy issues of public pan-European White Pages service (Deliverable C). Full presentation is available at http://www.terena.nl/task-forces/tf-lsd/docs/pg.tf-lsd-3-privacy.ppt

He told that problem appeared to be more complicated than it was seen from the beginning. Privacy issues on the Internet include both legal issues and International issues. Available information includes:

Their specific focus is on e-commerce and data servers rather than index servers. Many countries are preparing to enact privacy legislation, however there is no specific legislation for US companies. Only solution provided/recommended is a "safe harbor" (http://www.export.gov/safeharbor/).

Peter made detailed overview of above mentioned documents and particularly EU documents, providing people with possibility to comment. Most of existing documents are quite old (last published document is EU Directive dated by 1997) and donít reflect technical issues and practice of Internet commerce based of web interface/access. In practice companies define their Codes of conduct (via Privacy statement) to comply with more strict local and European rules. It was also mentioned that in US, if customer/visitor type his/her name into a web formular, it may be treated as I-signature (but not digital signature).

Peter mentioned other valuable documents:

Summarising his first results Peter proposed list of organisational and Technical issues to be discussed in context of privacy of White pages. Proposed structure of Deliverable:
1. Discussion of EU-Regulation
2. Generic description of CIP index system
3. Privacy issues of the system
4. Organizational and technical solutions
Peter listed number of questions to answer before proceeding further with this research/deliverable [text in brackets summarize the discussion] Peter confirmed his intention to make the first draft version out soon, but the matter is very difficult and more contributors are needed. SURFnet Privacy document seems to be the most appropriate for purpose of Pan-European White Page service and will be exploited .

It was agreed that study of privacy issues must be made before starting pan-European deployment or White Page service.

Action 3-6. Brian, Ton and others to look at Peterís Draft Privacy document when available.
 

8. Directory related issues in PKI development

David Chadwick provided update on recent development in using LDAP for storing and retrieving Certificates. Full presentation is available at http://www.terena.nl/task-forces/tf-lsd/docs/david.chadwick.PKILDAP.ppt

Use of LDAP for storing PKI information is limited by some deficiencies in LDAP:

Currently pending few Internet-Drafts intend to solve problems with searching for Certificates and selecting individual Certificate, as well as problems related to working in distributed Directory environment (finding directory server and chaining requests).
 
 

9. Directory related work in the Global Grid Forum

Peter Gietz presented his analysis on common interest and possibility of cooperation between Directory related activities in Global Grid Forum (GGF) and TF-LSD, thanks to his involvement in both activities. Most WGs in GGF use directories as base technology for distributed information. Two GGF WGs most related with TF-LSD work are:

GIS WG defines common framework and standard for representing people in distributed environment, their definition of GridPerson is based on InetOrgPerson. More information at http://www-unix.mcs.anl.gov/gridforum/gis/reports/people/people.pdf

Summurising his insight into GGF activity, Peter suggested: Although GGF has different background and different target communities there are many areas of possible common activities, eg. defining LDAP Schema for different profiles of personal information, user based trust releationship and problems of trust delegation in distributed environment, etc.

It was proposed that Peter makes regular update on related GGF activity to TF-LSD.

Full presentation is available at http://www.terena.nl/task-forces/tf-lsd/docs/pg.tf-lsd-3-grid.ppt

Action 3-7. Peter to provide regular update on related GGF activity.
 
 

10. Pilot Project proposals discussion

The goal of this Agenda item was to discuss project proposal related to TF-LSD that had been submitted to TTC and receive initial evaluation by the TF-LSD/meeting. Authors made short presentation about their projects.

10.1. CIP-based Referral Server Ė Catalogix and REDIRIS

Roland Hedberg presented this project proposal. It is available at http://www.terena.nl/task-forces/tf-lsd/projects/CIPreferralproposal.txt

The objective of the project is to develop extension to LIMS that provides facility to build distributed index services around non-LDAP based directory servers and/or databases. This will allow integration of different locally maintained resources. Project came up from attempts at RedIRIS to use LIMS for building their distributed Directory service and needs to be integrated into related pan-European services.

LIMS has been evaluated as the basis for the search facilities in European-wide White pages service based on LDAP. In fact, some national networks (like RedIRIS) are already using it, while some others (UNINETT, SUNET, FUNET and Switch) are planning to implement national-wide search services based on it. Results of the project may be useful outside the LDAP community to access/provide information not using LDAP as an access protocol.

Majority of people agreed that project would bring benefits to TERENA community. Some of representative (e.g., CARNet, FUNET, UNINETT, SURFnet) told that they are going to use projectís results.
 

10.2. Definition of a European Education Person (DEEP) - DAASI International Ltd

This project proposal has been submitted by DAASI and presented by Peter Gietz. It is available at http://www.terena.nl/task-forces/tf-lsd/projects/DEEP-Projekt-proposal.rtf

Project objective: based on evaluation of existing object classes for personal information, promote one or more of the existing object classes, or if necessary define the new object class EducationalPerson that will be targeted for the European research community. Essential part of the project activity is an active cooperation with Internet2 EduPerson and GGF GridPerson WGs to represent the European perspective as well as to harmonize different approaches. Another deliverable includes development of exemplary prototype applications to provide a proof of concept.

Discussion on the proposal covered issues of relation of this proposal to the Internet2 EduPerson and what are current differences between current version of Internet2/US EduPerson and prospective European EducationalPerson.

David Chadwick expressed his concern that definition of European EducationalPerson may be premature if looking from the InetOrgPerson perspective, however he was opposed that proposed work will stimulate/simplify wide Directory based services deployment among Academic and Research community in Europe. Many representatives expressed their support of this proposal and some declared their intension to use it (UK, CEZnet, UNINETT, FUNET). Michael Gettes from Internet2 expressed his interest in this project and intension to cooperate.
 

10.3. Adding Certificate Retrieval to OpenLDAP - University of Salford

This project proposal was presented by David Chadwick, full text is available at http://www.terena.nl/task-forces/tf-lsd/projects/OpenLDAP4PKIproposal.rtf

Projects objectives include development of software modules: to implement the matched values LDAPv3 control in the OpenLDAP source code and in LDAP client, to implement (a subset of) the certificate matching rules in the OpenLDAP source code and in LDAP client. Project activity also includes proceeding with related Internet Drafts.

Project timetable and tasks were tuned with Kurt Zeilenga, the Chief Architect of OpenLDAP.

Karel Vietsch explained that because of large requested budget TERENA can fund only some part of the project and interested NRENs should put their own money into this project.

NREN representatives present at the meeting demonstrated strong support for the project and interest in implementation of its results. When polled, few representatives (UNINETT/NEEDS, FUNET, POLnet and Internet2) told that they will be ready to make their contribution to project funding.
 

11. Other work items

No other work items were discussed.
 

12. Date of next meetings, AOB and Close

The next meeting should take place in next week after Autumn Internet2 meeting which will take place in early October 2001.
 

13. Summary of actions

Outstanding actions

Action 2-5. Diego to publish definition of iris-x skeleton in English.

Action 2-7. Leif and others to inform TF-LSD members about available LDAP/Directory promotional documents and presentations.

Action 2-10. Luuk/SURFnet to inform TF-LSD about DC/X.521 Gateway development and experience.

New actions Action 3-1. Stig to publish Deliverables and dates to the tf-lsd mailing list.

Action 3-2. Konstantin to place link to LDIF distribution page from NameFlow frontpage.

Action 3-3. Peter to publish results of test of different LDAP server software.

Action 3-4. Send last call to TF-LSD mailing list about tokenization and TIO attributes.

Action 3-5. Peter and Roland prepare report on testing LDAP Index Servers and publish via TF-LSD mailing list.

Action 3-6. Brian, Ton and others to look at Peterís Draft Privacy document when available.

Action 3-7. Peter to provide regular update on related GGF activity.

 
Appendix. List of the 3rd TF-LSD attendees on 13.May 2001
 
 
number
name
organization
1
Peter Gietz DAASI International
2
Egon Verharen SURFnet (&TF-STREAM chair)
3
Sebastian Szuber PSNC, Poland
4
David Chadwick University of Salford
5
Andrei Sukov SSAU, Russia
6
Konstantin Chuguev DANTE
7
Stig Venaas UNINETT
8
Stanislaw Starzak Pol-34
9
Maja Gorecke-Wolniewicz NCU Poland
10
Roland Hedberg CATALOGIX
11
Ton Verschuren SURFnet
12
Henny Bekker SURFnet
13
Miroslav Milinovic CARNET/SRCE
14
Brian Gilmore TERENA
15
Milan Sova CESNET, Czech Rep.
16
Albert E. Schindler University of Geneva
17
Heikki Vatiainen Tampere University of Tech.
18
Sami Keski-Kasari Tampere University of Tech.
19
Janne Kanner CSC/FUNET
20
Yuri Demchenko TERENA
21
Valentino Cavalli  TERENA
22
Karel Vietsch TERENA
23
John Dyer  TERENA
24
Michael Gettes Georgetown University/Internet 2